Criticism of the Strange Belief that there are Living Beings on the Planet Saturn

Criticism of the Strange Belief that there are Living Beings on the Planet Saturn

By Georead

Regrettably I spent eight years inside the religious cult lead by a sociopath John Thiel. Inside the cult group there were secret beliefs not immediately revealed to new initiates. Some years into my stay with the group, John Thiel, in all seriousness, began talking about living beings on Saturn.

John Thiel and his followers believe that there are tall majestic beings living on the planet Saturn. They also believe that Enoch visited the planet Saturn. [1]  Why do they think that the planet Saturn is inhabited?

An early Adventist Minister, John N. Loughborough, wrote a book called The Great Second Advent Movement. On page 258 paragraph 1 of this book J. N. Loughborough describes a vision in which E. G. White saw the planets of the solar system. He writes that she saw the planet Saturn and that she said it had seven moons. On page 260 paragraph 4 of the same book J. N. Loughborough quotes a letter received from Mrs. Truesdail on Jan 27, 1891. In the letter Mrs. Truesdail describes the same vision writing that: – “After counting aloud the moons of Jupiter, and soon after those of Saturn, she gave a beautiful description of the rings of the latter.  She then said, ‘The inhabitants are a tall, majestic people, so unlike the inhabitants of earth.  Sin has never entered here.’

The above mention ideas are then linked to another statement made by E. G. White in the book Early Writings: – “Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. . . . I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, ‘It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place.’ He moved about the place as if perfectly at home.” {EW 39.3}

Is it possible that John Thiel and his group are correct, that there are living beings on Saturn?

Saturn is covered with thick layers of gaseous clouds to a depth of about 200 kilometres. It is rare to see past the top layer of cloud to more layers of cloud below. The liquid surface of the planet is not visible. [2] If there were any living beings on the liquid surface of Saturn it would be impossible for them to observe the moons or the rings of Saturn through the clouds. Saturn’s atmosphere consists of hydrogen (94.4 percent), helium (7.4 percent), methane (0.2 percent), and ammonia (0.02 percent). [2] Any living being on Saturn would have to breathe this atmosphere.

Saturn is believed to have a solid core but also an intermediate layer of liquid hydrogen. [3] Since Saturn has no solid surface in its outer layers (only gas and liquid) the whole planet assumes oblate spheroid shape, like a squashed ball. It is the most oblate shaped planet in the solar system. [4] If living beings were on Saturn they’d be swimming in an ocean of liquid hydrogen.

Temperatures at the top of Saturn’s the clouds are massively below freezing. Descending into Saturn’s atmosphere temperatures become warmer but atmospheric pressure increases to the same as several kilometres beneath the ocean on earth. [5] Any living thing on Saturn, besides having to swimming in the ocean of liquid hydrogen, would have to withstand the enormous pressures of the atmosphere pressing down from above.

Saturn is one of the windiest places in the Solar System. Wind speeds have been clocked at 1800 kilometres per hour at the equator.  [6] Any living thing on Saturn would have to withstand the enormous storms on Saturn and more than likely would be torn to pieces. NASA’s space probe Cassini has taken many pictures of these enormous storms.

Considering all the above it is highly doubtful there are any living beings on Saturn. Mrs Truesdail may well have been mistaken in her account of what she thought was said by E. G. White.

Also it is extremely tenuous trying to link the book The Great Second Advent Movement with what is written about Enoch in the book Early Writings. In one book Saturn is said to have seven moons in the other an unnamed world is said to have seven moons. There is nothing to say these are the same worlds or planets. This is pure speculation. There are numberless worlds throughout the universe that it could be.

When Galileo began to study the heavens with the telescope in the late 1500’s he came to the conclusion that the earth revolved around the sun. This was considered heresy by the church. Scripture was used to show that the earth is stationary while the sun is revolves around the earth. (see Ecclesiastes 1:5; Psalms 16:30; 93:1; 96:10; Joshua 10:13). Galileo believed that the writers of the Scripture merely wrote from the perspective of the terrestrial world. Indeed when a poet writes that the “sun moves across the sky, on a grand arc toward the horizon” they are not wrong. Neither is the astronomer wrong in describing the movement of the sun and planets. They write from a different perspective.

In 1632 Galileo published a book titled Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief Systems of the World. In the book Galileo includes a fictitious character called Simplicio. Into the mouth of Simplicio he put all of the arguments of his opponents. He then demolished these with his own powerful arguments, often with devastating satire. Into the mouth of Simplicio Galileo put one of the arguments the pope put to him in 1623. The pope was livid and never forgave Galileo.

We now have modern Simplicio’s arguing there are tall majestic beings living on the planet Saturn.

Proverbs 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

John Thiel’s group promote the writing of J. N. Loughborough who quotes Mrs Truesdail concerning tall majestic beings living on Saturn. His group are happy to post this on the internet with supporting information. [1] John Thiel argues that he follows the Adventist Pioneers. J. N. Loughborough is an Adventist Pioneer.

Yet John Thiel does not always follow J. N. Loughborough neither does he always follow E. G. White. This can be seen in the 3 different interpretations of Joel 2:30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

1) J. N. Loughborough wrote the book Last-Day Tokens.  In this book J. N. Loughborough quotes Joel 2:30 and goes on to explain what he believes it refers to: – “About the middle of the sixteenth century there appeared a wonder in the heavens that finally, in the fore part of the eighteenth century, assumed the exact appearance of that predicted by the prophet Joel.  It is the aurora borealis, first seen in a fiery display in Great Britain in 1716, and in America for the first time, three years later, in 1719.  From the middle of the sixteenth century there have been witnessed, from time to time, in increasing magnitude, ‘spears of red light in the heavens,’ and ‘shooting stars;’ but up to A. D. 1716 no fiery display is recorded.”

2) E. G. White wrote the book Spiritual Gifts volume 3.  In this book E. G. White quotes Joel 2:30 and goes on to explain what she believes it refers to: – “The bowels of the earth were the Lord’s arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. {3SG 82.2}  . . In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from Heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence.” {3SG 82.3}

3) Meanwhile John Thiel quotes Joel 2:30 and says what he believes it refers to: – “When wars are coming, they will herald the coming of Jesus. Blood, fire and pillars of smoke.  In the margin it says palm trees of smoke.  Have we seen these?  Nuclear bombs.  Ever since the signs the threat of war has escalated.” [9]

John Thiel does not always follow E. G. White and the Adventist Pioneers as he claims. There are three different views. J. N. Loughborough believes that Joel 2:30 is referring to the aurora borealis in the 1700’s. E. G. White believes Joel 2:30 is referring to volcanic destruction in the last plagues. John Thiel believes Joel 2:30 refers to future nuclear war. Who are we to follow?

John Thiel says we should follow E. G. White and the Adventist Pioneers yet he completely abandons them when it comes to Joel 2:30. Woe betide anyone in the group that should dare to hold a contradictory view. In September 2003, taking John Thiel’s advice to follow the Adventist Pioneers, I preached J. N. Loughborough’s view of Joel 2:30. Not long after John Thiel slammed this view from the pulpit promoting his own view instead. This public contradiction was completely humiliating. John Thiel dominates all thought of the group. Those that don’t comply or have other views will be humiliated from the pulpit or continually picked at by other cult members.

J.N. Loughborough  was living in a time when there was a lot of  ignorance concerning the condition of the planets. In his ignorance he may have believed the surface of Saturn was solid like that of the earth. It’s doubtful J. N. Loughborough would have ever added Mrs Truesdail’s letter to his book had he know the real conditions of Saturn. Also why should anyone believe Mrs Truesdail’s letter about tall majestic beings living on Saturn? It was  written in the mid-1800’s by an ignorant old woman who pieced together unrelated bits of information.

Some might say the belief that there are beings living on Saturn is only a minor point and that it doesn’t matter whether we believe it or not. However it is a serious concern that anyone would believe it at all being based on a few ambiguous statements linked together so tenuously. Further it invites the question how many other ambiguous statements are being used by such an incredibly simple people to sustain other wrong ideas in their cult group.

The idea that EGW said there is life on Saturn is false. Look up statements mistakenly attributed to EGW here http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/faq-mist.html

 

 

References

[1] http://sabbathsermons.com/2013/02/07/saturn-seven-moons-and-tall-majestic-beings/

[2] http://lifeng.lamost.org/courses/astrotoday/CHAISSON/AT312/HTML/AT31202.HTM

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn

[4] http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/525169/Saturn/54278/Basic-astronomical-data

[5] http://www.universetoday.com/15376/is-there-life-on-saturn/

[6] http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Cassini-Huygens/Saturn_s_atmosphere

[7] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/horizon/sept98/galileo.htm

[8] http://galileo.rice.edu/gal/urban.html

[9] http://sabbathsermons.com/2009/08/06/understanding-the-seriousness-of-the-hour/

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4 Responses to Criticism of the Strange Belief that there are Living Beings on the Planet Saturn

  1. wildport says:

    John, it seems according to the many articles I have read,as stated by you and also as the above mentioned, that many doctrinal flaws are showing forth in your doctrinal publications and people are starting to pick at you and your so called”true doctrines” which is a fabrication of false hood copied from other writers,mingled with your own interpretation .It appears they are all your own personal opinions covered under the garb of “you know better than others”.I have also observed that you, when cornerned for your wrongs,condemn others with Biblical arrows,instead of bringing to the front a Biblical proof for the statements you”ve made.The golden Bible rule is: according to Isaiah 8.20 “To the law and to the Testimony.if they speak not according to this word,it is because there is no LIGHT in them” Thus far you have failed in your writings to meet up to that standard and all your future sermons will be scrutinize in the light of God’s Word,according to Isaiah 8.20..

  2. John Thiel says:

    Dear [Georead], I am so sorry to learn of your
    engagements in demeaning those who have once been in warm fellowship with you. I pray for you that you may recover yourself from such a practice as this will surely destroy your spiritual condition. May god give you wisdom to spend your time in uplifting Jesus instead of attacking those who have been and still desire to be your friends. I would disqualify myself from Christ’s followers if I were to demonstrate your falsehoods in describing the things I believe and teach. Sadly you have taken them out of all proportion and made them to sound as true. May God forgive you as I do. I hope to see you among those who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb.

    • georead says:

      John,

      Firstly may I point out that your whole ministry is built upon demeaning others. Secondly your response is classic cultic spin or in the Mormon style. You haven’t addressed the criticisms. You just say they are misrepresentations but don’t explain why. Then you focus on attacking the critic, calling into question motives, asking why would they attack a fellow Christian? Then you make comments that the soul is in mortal danger and pray for them.

      John, why haven’t you addressed the criticism of this blog? Why exactly it is that you have said that this criticism misrepresents your point of view? Isn’t there a biblical mandate to point out false teachings? John, can you clarify if there are in fact 13 foot people living on Saturn?

      You mention the washing clean of robes in blood of the lamb those who are redeemed by the lamb. They will stand on Mt Zion and they are not ‘defiled by women’ (false doctrines). Since you want to participate in this heavenly activity you should also welcome the opportunity to defend your doctrines and show they are true doctrines.

    • Simon O'Rourke says:

      Is it possible to be saved while not believing there are 13ft people on Saturn? Please pontificate.

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